From ts@uwasa.fi Sat Apr 18 17:02:00 1992
Return-Path: <ts@uwasa.fi>
From: Timo Salmi <ts@uwasa.fi>
Subject: /pc/pd2/post09.txt file description
To: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 99 6:46:16 EET
Status: RO

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
! This file is in mail format, so you can also read it with any !
! suitable Unix mail program such as elm: (elm -f post09.txt).  !
! On a PC /pc/mail/rmail*.zip is a convenient alternative       !
+---------------------------------------------------------------+

   This is the ninth file that contains my replies and comments that
I or others have made by email, or just written here instead of
posting to (mainly to) comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives, or postings
that I wanted to retain for your information.
   Note that the latest tspost??.zip is always being updated until
it contains 30 messages.  The files are located at the /pc/pd2
directory. 
   For an index of all the post*.zip files please see
/pc/pd2/tspost00.zip.

1   Dec 31 Timo Salmi         (31)   /pc/pd2/post09.txt file description
2   Jun 15 To roberts@triton. (54)   Re: POST09.ZIP and DOSCLIP.COM
3   Jun 13 To John Cowles     (38)   Re: Missing file (upload lag)
4   Jun 10 hv@garbo.uwasa.fi  (67)   Re: MAC problems with garbo CDROM
5   Jun 9  To Jose Campione   (32)   Re: uploading instructions
6   Jun 7  To Harri Valkama   (28)   Re: Indexes to garbo subdirs
7   May 30 To Jochen Joscho S (65)   Re: TSGMED12.ZIP Flaggames
8   May 26 To Calvin Miracle  (28)   Re: How to unZ and unTAR..
9   May 24 Timo Salmi         (82)   Observations from garbo user log
10  May 23 To Robert Israel   (59)   Re: logrun batch utility in TSBAT35
11  May 23 Tony Thomas        (103)  SIMTEL20 & GARBO CD-ROM Reviews
12  May 22 To Vikram Lall     (52)   Re: BESTPR24, duplication of work?
13  May 21 Duncan Murdoch     (18)   Re: TSGMED12.ZIP Learn national flag
14  May 12 Timo Salmi         (81)   Snipper and DosClip patching
15  May 10 To Shahar Steiff   (72)   Re: ASKENV -> ANSWER
16  May 9  To David Datta     (54)   Re: msdos FORWARD slash hack wanted
17  May 7  Timo Salmi         (339)  Re: (administrative) cbip.d has fail
18  May 6  Robert A. Bruce    (75)   Garbo MSDOS/MAC Archive on CDROM for
19  May 5  To Hylton Boothroy (216)  Re: On links and garbo policies
20  May 5  To Timecode Mary   (48)   Re: Updated listing of files in the
21  May 4  To Wool Avishai    (63)   Re: Improvements (?) for spell check
22  May 2  Timo Salmi         (76)   Re: Storing upload announcements
23  Apr 26 To Ackerman        (70)   Re: Numerical Recipes in C ( or Fort
24  Apr 24 feg@floyd.att.com  (52)   bestpr22
25  Apr 24 To chuah@elec.cant (59)   Re: Suggestion: Better software docs
26  Apr 24 To chuah@elec.cant (60)   Re: (administrative) postings in cbi
27  Apr 23 newsstats@uunet.UU (37)   Top 25 News Submitters by User by nu
28  Apr 22 To Samir Varma     (123)  Re: Suggestion (OS/2 files to garbo)
29  Apr 21 Timo Salmi         (77)   Of reviews & feedback index at garbo
30  Apr 20 Timo Salmi         (115)  Weekends and garbo mail server

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland


From ts@uwasa.fi Tue Apr 21 20:35:27 EET 1992
Article: 3574 of comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
Path: uwasa.fi!ts
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Subject: Of reviews & feedback index at garbo
Message-ID: <1992Apr21.173508.3777@uwasa.fi>
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1992 17:35:08 GMT
Lines: 63
Status: RO

These questions are of general interest so I'll post my reply.

> From: Niels Ull Jacobsen <null@diku.dk>
> Subject: Re: POST*.ZIP garbo info & feedback files now with indexes
> To: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 92 13:02:47 +0200
>
> In article <1992Apr18.132812.1700@uwasa.fi> you write:
> > Sat 18-Apr-92: I updated all the garbo feedback and information
> > "post" files this time by putting an subject index to each of them.
>
> >  16951 Apr 18 16:23 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/post01.zip
> ...
>
> Wouldn't it be useful to have a collected index, postind.zip, so that
> it was only necessary to download the relevant parts?

It's already there as
7284 Apr 18 17:23 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/post00.zip

>    Niels Ull Jacobsen, Dep. of C.S., U of Copenhagen (null@diku.dk)
>

> From: Niels Ull Jacobsen <null@diku.dk>
> Subject: Re: Acquisitions to garbo archives
> To: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 92 12:59:44 +0200
>
> In article <1992Apr17.144441.16291@uwasa.fi> you list some new files
> on garbo and gives your personal evaluation of them. They are much
> appreciated!
>
> I suggest that you include a small note in these reviews stating
> a) The description is your personal opinion (just to prevent possible
>    future flamewars).

I'll take my chances rather than put still more formality in
cbip.archives.

> b) where these reviews can be ftp'd from. I hope you collect them in a
>    file? This would be very useful. Perhaps reviews.zip in the filelist
>    directory or one of the doc directories?

They are stored in
 30588 Apr 21 14:43 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/news-pd2
 15448 Jan  4 00:00 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/news89.pd2
 41733 Jan  4 00:01 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/news90.pd2
 51261 Jan  4 00:01 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/news91a.pd2
 52856 Jan  4 00:03 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/news91b.pd2

> Once again: Thanks for a good archive.

I am pleased that so many users like it.

>    Niels Ull Jacobsen, Dep. of C.S., U of Copenhagen (null@diku.dk)

   All the best, Timo

...................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.87.1
School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland
Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun


From ts@uwasa.fi Wed Apr 22 07:45:58 EET 1992
Article: 3543 of comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
Path: uwasa.fi!ts
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Subject: Weekends and garbo mail server
Message-ID: <1992Apr20.064805.27451@uwasa.fi>
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1992 06:48:05 GMT
Lines: 30
Status: RO

Well dear mail server users, have it your own way, but be aware that
if you send such amounts of mail server requests on holidays and on
weekends, garbo.uwasa.fi is bound to crash.  And at weekends or
holidays there is no one at the premises to lift her up again.  So
some advice once again because garbo crashed on Saturday and is
still down.  We may have to consider whether we prefer to close the
server on problem times deterministically or to have the garbo
crashes which are more random.

1) Be extra judicious with your mail server usage during weekends,
even if for the load of the network this would else be the optimal
timing.

2) Whatever the weekday, do not send in a repeat request until you
have had a response (success or an error message).  And before you
send for the files read and follow the instructions carefully.  If
you do not have them, you are welcome to email me for the canned
(29Kb) garbo instructions.

3) Avoid experimenting and don't go on fishing expeditions with the
file names! Be careful with your format and make all you can to
assure that you are requesting an existing file.

4) Never use the mail server if you have a working FTP option.

...................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.87.1
School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland
Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun


-From ts@uwasa.fi Wed Apr 22 07:24:32 EET 1992
Article: 3582 of comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
Path: uwasa.fi!ts
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Subject: All garbo mail server users PLEASE READ THIS (Was Re: Weekends, ...)
Message-ID: <1992Apr22.042328.16419@uwasa.fi>
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
References: <1992Apr20.064805.27451@uwasa.fi>
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1992 04:23:28 GMT
Lines: 57

In article <1992Apr20.064805.27451@uwasa.fi> ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes:

***********************************************************
Old and potential garbo mail server users, please read this
***********************************************************

>2) Whatever the weekday, do not send in a repeat request until you
>have had a response (success or an error message).  And before you
>send for the files read and follow the instructions carefully.  If
>you do not have them, you are welcome to email me for the canned
>(29Kb) garbo instructions.

If you have sent me for the instructions and you don't hear from me,
say, within 2-7 days, it means that your email return path is
unreturnable and you would not be able to use our mail server
without problems.  I always try to send the instructions to everyone
who ask for them, but if the mail bounces I will _NOT_ try to figure
out how to get through.

If you do not hear from me and want to try again, please contact
your system manager before you do! Ask him/her to look into your
path problem and ask him/her to device a proper bang path (or
whatever) to get through.  There is nothing we can do from this end
to solve your problem.

*DO NOT* go sending mail server requests before you have ascertained
that you can get back and forth go garbo.  Asking me for the
prerecorded instructions is a good way of checking.  But only ask
once if you do not hear from me.  Don't try to force it.

I repeat: If you don't get a reply from me or if you do not receive
the files you have sent for, *DO NOT* try again before you have
worked out your problem.  If the present and potential users will
not be careful in this respect we have to begin to impose
limitations on garbo mail server usage to be able to keep the garbo
service properly going for the FTP users.

It is also fair to inform you that we have our eyes on a couple of
mail server users who repeatedly misuse garbo mail server by not
looking carefully enough into the file and directory names and send
the same repeat requests over and over again.  I know that you mean
no harm, and may in fact be quite bewildered and frustrated because
you are having problems with the mail server.  Nevertheless we may
have to consider drastic measures about these users' privileges at
garbo for the sake of our other users if you do not "shape up".

Please note that this is not being unfriendly.  Quite the opposite.
Everyone gains if things run smoothly.  (This goes both for the FTP
archive site usages, and for the content of this newsgroup).

   All the best, Timo

...................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.87.1
School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland
Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun


From ts@uwasa.fi Wed Apr 22 11:50:49 1992
Subject: Re: Suggestion (OS/2 files to garbo)
To: varmint@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Samir Varma)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 11:50:49 EET DST
In-Reply-To: <9204220503.AA24784@huey.cc.utexas.edu>; from "Samir Varma" at Apr 22, 92 12:03 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO

>
> Hi, now that OS2/2.0 is out and its the latest and greatest etc. etc.
> I was wondering if you were planning to have an os2 archive?  Garbo is
> generally the place most of us look first to find the latest good stuff
> and it would be really nice to have an os2 resource like it.
>
> Just a thought, and thanks for all your work on garbo -- I think we all
> appreciate it very much.
>
> Samir Varma
>

Hello Samir,

A good and a relevant question.  The answer is, however, no.  It is
our policy to specialize.  Besides we cannot absorb any more
workload.  Furthermore, although it is not decisive, our main
channel for upload announcements is comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives.
It is for MsDos and Windows material only.  OS/2 has newsgroups of
its own.

The situation is somewhat like it is for MsDos games.  We are very
pleased that there is a site (ftp.ulowell.edu) that specializes in
games.  Likewise we would be pleased to see a site specializing in
OS/2 material (if such a site does not already operate).  But we are
not considering to be that site for the time being.

This might be of general interest so I'll also post this reply.

   All the best, Timo

...................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.87.1
School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland
Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun

-From ts@uwasa.fi Wed Apr 22 19:35:53 1992
Subject: Re: No OS/2 at garbo
To: oneel@arupa.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bruce Oneel)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 19:35:53 EET DST
Cc: w8sdz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Keith Petersen), hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama)
In-Reply-To: <9204221321.AA08027@arupa.gsfc.nasa.gov>; from "Bruce Oneel" at Apr 22, 92 9:21 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> Hi,
>   the os/2 collections are at hobbes.nmsu.edu and novell.com (after
> hours only).
>
> bruce
>
> --
> Bruce O'Neel              oneel@heasfs.gsfc.nasa.gov
> NASA/GSFC/STX/Code 664

Thank you for the information, Bruce.  I'll attach it to
garbo.uwasa.fi information files.

   All the best, Timo

...................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.87.1
School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland
Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun


-From ts@uwasa.fi Thu Apr 23 06:41:55 1992
Subject: Re: No OS/2 at garbo
To: cjensen@mer-s4-1.ampex.com (Colin Jensen)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 92 6:41:55 EET DST
In-Reply-To: <9204222018.AA11379@mer-s4-1.mer-eng>; from "Colin Jensen" at Apr 22, 92 1:18 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> In article <1992Apr22.090748.23050@uwasa.fi> you write:
> >games.  Likewise we would be pleased to see a site specializing in
> >OS/2 material (if such a site does not already operate).  But we are
> >not considering to be that site for the time being.
> >
> >Prof. Timo Salmi
>
> Timo,
>
> Just for your information, here is the list of OS/2 archives listed in
> the FAQ for OS/2.  Perhaps it may be of use to you...
>
> === Excerpt:
> hobbes.nmsu.edu             128.123.35.151     pub/os2, pub/os2-1.x
> mtsg.ubc.ca                 137.82.27.1        os2:
> luga.latrobe.edu.au         131.172.2.2        pub/os2
> msdos.archive.umich.edu     141.211.164.153    msdos/os2
> funic.funet.fi              128.214.6.100      pub/os2
> sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de  129.206.100.126    pub/os2
> novell.com                  130.57.4.1         os2
>
> The last site should not be accessed weekdays between 8:00 a.m. and 5:30
> p.m. Pacific Time.
> === End of excerpt
>
> Cheers, and keep up the good work!
> --
> Colin Jensen (cjensen@ampex.com)

Thank you Colin.  I'll add this information to the publicly
available garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/post09.txt.

   All the best, Timo

...................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.87.1
School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland
Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun


From ts@uwasa.fi Fri Apr 24 07:00:53 1992
Subject: Re: Suggestion: Better software docs
To: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 92 7:00:53 EET DST
Cc: w8sdz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Keith Petersen), hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama)
In-Reply-To: <9204240124.AA10274@elec.canterbury.ac.nz>; from "chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz" at Apr 24, 92 1:24 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO

> Prof Salmi,
>
> I have noticed that in many software packages in archive sites,
> the documentation is very poor.  For example, most shareware
> authors tend to write pages of legal stuff before anything that
> tells us what the package is used for.  It would be better to
> have, say in the first page of the documentation, a good and
> concise description of the software, very much like the
> "abstract" section of a technical document.
>
> So my suggestion is this.  Why not write a help file on good
> software documentation.  You as a programmer and a software

That is naturally up to the authors.  I cannot absorb any more work
myself.

> user should have ample ideas.  You can also solicit information
> from the cbip usenet community.  When I started using internet,
> back in the days when garbo was called chyde, I have found
> these sort of documents very useful.

Well I have been imploring users to post program reviews with little
result.  This is your big chance.

> I think if you like to specialise, one probably area is in
> software documentation, ie ask the uploader to provide better
> documentation if necessary.

That is exactly what garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/UPTEXT.INF solicits.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dennis Chuah, BE (Elec)    | "One Country,  | Supporting the Malaysian
> Te Whare Wananga O Waitaha | One People." - | Hockey team for gold in
> Aotearoa.                  | Maori proverb. | Barcelona.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Pencangkul Matahari" email: chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz

Dennis, this is a second message from you that is of public
interest.  I'll post my reply as a reply to my posting of the upload
formula.

   All the best, Timo

...................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.87.1
School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland
Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun


From ts@uwasa.fi Fri Apr 24 06:53:01 1992
Subject: Re: (administrative) postings in cbip.a
To: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 92 6:53:01 EET DST
In-Reply-To: <9204240044.AA10152@elec.canterbury.ac.nz>; from "chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz" at Apr 24, 92 12:44 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO

> Prof Salmi,
>
> Subject: (administrative) Part II  Re: Zenith Z-300 LIM 4.
>          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> This is a very good idea.  Perhaps you can use this sort of subject
> line for all other "policing" messages.  Experienced cbipa readers
> can place "administrative" in their kill file and not be bothered,
> while inexperienced users will get the benefit of your messages.

Hello Dennis,

That is exactly what I intend.  By policing we mean here notifying
strays, to begin with.  The more general alternative for
cbip.archives would have been (non-upload) but then all others would
have to follow suit of it to be of any use.  For the moment I shall
designate this above all to giving public advice on misposting, but
it might have other uses, too.  We'll see how it goes.

> Keep up the good work, anyway.  Its nice to be able to scan for
> upload announcements in 10 minutes now rather than the 1 hour before
> the reorganization.

That is exactly the point that that is why I have been doing the
policing even if I hate it.  I think that the results show in
cbip.archives very satisfactorily, and to some extent in cbip.d
although far from enough.  I am glad that most users understand the
need for keeping things reasonably orderly.  On the other hand I am
dismayed by the fact that there always are a couple of hotheads who
do not see the wood for the trees and have come on strongly flaming
me for a wasting bandwidth on policing (From cbip.d rather than from
cbip.archives).  In my opinion these users are missing the point.
No amount of email will solve the problem.  I have to do the
administrative postings occasionally, or let confusion reign.


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dennis Chuah, BE (Elec)    | "One Country,  | Supporting the Malaysian
> Te Whare Wananga O Waitaha | One People." - | Hockey team for gold in
> Aotearoa.                  | Maori proverb. | Barcelona.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Pencangkul Matahari" email: chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz

Funnily enough this reply makes an (administrative) posting.

   All the best, Timo

...................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.87.1
School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland
Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun

From newsstats@uunet.UU.NET Fri Apr 24 10:55:14 EET 1992
Article: 1157 of news.lists
Newsgroups: news.lists
From: newsstats@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Top 25 News Submitters by User by number of articles for the last 2 weeks
Message-ID: <1992Apr23.231126.3757@uunet.uu.net>
Sender: rick@uunet.uu.net (News Statistics)
Organization: UUNET Technologies, Inc
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1992 23:11:26 GMT
Lines: 124
Status: RO

         No. of       % of
Rank Articles KBytes Total   User

   1  5544    5573.8  1.2%   ldm@wetterhorn.UCAR.EDU
                             (UNIDATA Local Data Mangement daemon)
                              100% ncar.weather

  19   142     234.7  0.1%   ts@uwasa.FI  (Timo Salmi)
                              49% comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
                               9% comp.lang.pascal
                               8% comp.os.msdos.programmer
                               5% comp.compression

  25   133     337.8  0.1%   muehlhau@en.ECN.PURDUE.EDU  (John Muehlhausen)
                              88% talk.religion.misc
                              11% talk.origins

Hah! Made it :-).

...................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.87.1
School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland
Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun

From dodger!feg@floyd.att.com Fri Apr 24 17:50:40 1992
From: dodger!feg@floyd.att.com
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 92 10:48 EDT
Received: from dodger by floyd.emsp.att.com; Fri, 24 Apr 92 10:48 EDT
Subject: bestpr22
To: ts@garbo.uwasa.fi
Status: RO

Hello Timo!
Downloaded your bestpr22 from simtel20 and have some comments
concerning it (and maybe some suggestions for additions).

sst_53a:  I like wiz251 (available on simtel20 under DIRUTL)
          Very fast file searcher; doesn't require complete
                  filename (or even an extension), crosses disk drives,
                  and has some nice options, but not necessary to use.
                  Additionally, you can use * as the first character
                  of the filename to be searched--very handy when
                  you have forgotten all but a scrap of the filename
                  you're looking for: great for the onset of Alzheimer's
                  for guys like me (age 72)! Heh.

dirw:     OK so you wrote it and you like it.  There is an old
                  one on simtel20 called sd62.arc which has oodles of
                  options (easily displayed by typing sd /?).
                  I tried to register recently; no response from author
                  and my check remains uncashed after 7 months.

keyrate:  Hyperkey (part of hydk431; one of the best cache programs
                  I have seen whether shareware or commercial).

Additions:

acd201    Available on simtel under dirutl.  A great substitute
                  for mdos CD command.  Fast; doesn't require complete
                  path; gives choice if more than one directory meets
                  criteria supplied; crosses drives.

a-ren301  Available on simtel under dirutl. A nice addition
                  to msdos REN command.  Has Unix-like qualities such
                  as allowing more than one filename per command.
                  Crosses disk drives (to me a very important point
                  as my PC has three floppy drives and two HD).

Best,

Forrest Gehrke feg@dodger.att.com



From ts@uwasa.fi Mon Apr 27 07:13:48 EET 1992
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.wanted
Subject: Re: Numerical Recipes in C ( or Fortran )
To: icsu8239@cs.montana.edu (Ackerman)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1992 06:08:28 GMT
Lines: 28
Status: RO

In article <1992Apr25.183325.24106@coe.montana.edu> icsu8239@cs.montana.edu (Ackerman) writes:
>Timo, a short while ago while browsing thru Garbo, I came across a zipped file
>with the source listings for Numerical Recipes in Pascal.  I couldn't find the
>comparable files for N.R. in Fortran or N.R. in C.  Do these reside at Garbo
>somewhere that I may have failed to look?  If not, could anyone suggest where
>I might find them?  Thanks all.

A good question.  When I got the Turbo Pascal Numerical Recipes
303775 May  2  1991 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/turbopas/nrpas13.zip
from the (main) author William Press he specificially pointed out to
me that only the Turbo Pascal version is distributable.  Thus there
is no authorized Fortran nor C Numerical Recipes in circulation. By
logic, the latter two are "fully commercial" if they exist, as I
would think they do.  Your bookstore might know more about that than
we on the net.

Incidentally, it is my understanding that the circulated TP version
is not the latest there is.  The latest is likely to commercial in
the same way, too.  I regret that I have no further information.
Also this is best up to your bookstore.

   All the best, Timo

...................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.87.1
School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland
Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun


-From ressler@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu Mon Apr 27 07:13:37 EET 1992
From: ressler@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Mike "IR" Ressler)
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.wanted
Subject: Re: Numerical Recipes in C ( or Fortran )
Date: 27 Apr 92 00:04:04 GMT
Organization: UH IfA and NASA Infrared Telescope Facility
Lines: 21

In article <1992Apr26.060828.2647@uwasa.fi> ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes:
>A good question.  When I got the Turbo Pascal Numerical Recipes
>303775 May  2  1991 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/turbopas/nrpas13.zip
>from the (main) author William Press he specificially pointed out to
>me that only the Turbo Pascal version is distributable.  Thus there
>is no authorized Fortran nor C Numerical Recipes in circulation. By
>logic, the latter two are "fully commercial" if they exist, as I
>would think they do.  Your bookstore might know more about that than
>we on the net.

This is essentially correct. The Fortran and C sources are available on a
variety of media from Cambridge University Press. I think I had to pay $30
(US) or so for the C version on 5.25" floppies. Other languages and media
were similarly priced. It is not public domain or distributable code.

Mike
--
  Mike Ressler - Infrared Photon Jockey     ressler@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu

  Some people like music they can brush their teeth to in the morning.
  Me? I like music I can brush my teeth with ...



From ts@uwasa.fi Sat May  2 09:08:41 EET 1992
Article: 3747 of comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Subject: Re: Storing upload announcements
Message-ID: <1992May2.060806.3082@uwasa.fi>
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
Date: Sat, 2 May 1992 06:08:06 GMT
Lines: 62
Status: RO

In article <1992May1.185813.1@mscf.med.upenn.edu>
lee_js@mscf.med.upenn.edu writes:
>the descriptions of programs that are posted on this newsgroup-
>are they archived anywhere or are they gone once they're off the net?
>
>any sites archives the program descriptions?
>
>thanks,
>jason

I can only answer this question for garbo.uwasa.fi and solely
locally.  We have not been storing the outside gentle uploaders'
announcements.  But my own announcements and reviews of our MsDos
packages are stored as

 31453 May  1 17:19 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/news-pd2
 15448 Jan  4 00:00 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/news89.pd2
 41733 Jan  4 00:01 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/news90.pd2
 51261 Jan  4 00:01 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/news91a.pd2
 52856 Jan  4 00:03 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/news91b.pd2

 21780 Apr 30 11:18 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/ts/0news-ts
 36892 Jan  1  1991 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/ts/0news89.ts
 53319 Jan  1  1991 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/ts/0news90.ts
 61627 Jan  4 00:00 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/ts/0news91.ts

In general you can see the directories + file names of the current
month's garbo.uwasa.fi uploads as
  961 May  1 20:11 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/_files.in

Also the old upload lists are stored, for garbo starting from
 5269 Jan 31  1991 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/filelist/garb9101.lst

I'll have to talk to Harri about making the old lists available also
as an archived annual entity as the number grows.

There are several reasons why we have not stored the upload
announcements.

1) This was a good and relevant question.  I must confess that we
have not really come to think of it.

2) The kind uploaders would have to stick still better to the
suggested announcement format.  There is the subject header problem.
Furthermore the content and even the quality of the announcements
fluctuates wildly.  (This would not prevent a raw storing.)

3) All good packages are supposed to have a documentation anyway.
In order for this to be useful as useful as possible, the material
should be well organized.  This brings up the inevitable argument.
Who would do the work.  Harri and I cannot absorb any more load.

This all means that the announcements would probably have to be
stored "raw".  Any takers?  Here is your big chance!  Any site
already doing this?

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


From ts@uwasa.fi Mon May  4 22:44:25 1992
Subject: Re: Improvements (?) for spell checker
To: yash@wisdom.weizmann.ac.il (Wool Avishai)
Date: Mon, 4 May 92 22:44:25 EET DST
In-Reply-To: <9205041057.AA05879@white.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il>; from "Wool Avishai" at May 4, 92 1:57 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO

> I have been using your UNIX style spell-checker (tschek14). I find it
> rather nice. I have a few suggestions for improvements that I think are
> quite simple, and could be useful (to me at least ... :-).

Hello Yashash,

I am pleased to hear that you like it, and the suggestions are welcome.

> (*) Ignore single letter words. Every text has them (initials, i.e., e.g.,
>     and so on) and they are annoying. I overcame the bother by adding
>     all 26 to auxil.dny.

As I point out and as you have obviously noticed from the Mon
19-Aug-91 update information in TSCHECK.NWS and SPL2.BAT in the
TSCHECK package, a simple batch file can be easily used to solve
this dilemma.

> (*) Treat the symbols $, ^, _ as seperators (there may be other printable
>     symbols that are not letters that the program does not treat like
>     punctuation). These symbols are found in large quantities in TeX
>     documents. I overcame this by filtering the symbols out.

That's the way to go, because there are so many features one could
customize that it is better to preprocess the material than to
change the program.

> (*) Let the program run on 2 dictionaries. Everyone has their own private
>     dictionary with odd words common to their documents. A batch file
>     that runs 'spell' twice is workable ofcourse, but a 'for (i=0; i<2; i++)'
>     loop would save the time for program load. Possible syntax might be
>       spell spelled3.dny+auxil.dny inputfile ........

With a judicious selelection of the order of running through the
dictionaries and a careful selection of the words in the second
dictionary the batch method is quick enough at least on a standard
386.  Although the idea is good I think I'll retain the simplicity
(and save some work).

> Carry on the good work !
>
> --
> Avishai Wool (a.k.a. Yashash)
> Dept. of Applied Mathematics and Computer Science
> Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovot, Israel
> E-Mail : yash@wisdom.weizmann.ac.il

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


From ts@uwasa.fi Tue May  5 07:14:03 1992
Subject: Re: Updated listing of files in the Geos FTP archives
To: atman@ecst.csuchico.edu (Timecode Mary)
Date: Tue, 5 May 92 7:14:03 EET DST
Cc: Garbo infolist, w8sdz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Keith Petersen),
        mr@cica.indiana.edu (Michael Regoli), mt@uwasa.fi (Matti Taanonen)
In-Reply-To: <9205042002.AA22282@uwasa.fi>; from "Timecode Mary" at May 4, 92 1:01 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO

> There is currently a site that specializes in GeoWorks files --
> ecst.csuchico.edu.  There is a person that doesn't have access to

Hello Shaun,

Thank you for this information.  I'll pass it on to the good people
on Garbo infolist.  As I said on the news we specialize in MsDos
utilities and some Windows, and with the load we moderators have I
am beginning to think that we still may have taken on too wide a
selection.  For example there is the Windows specialist cica anyway,
but the big problem with cica is that they do not announce uploads.
Anyway, at the very least we will not be taking on any more OSes
like OS/2 or GeoWorks.

> anonymous FTP, but can use an email server to get software from Simtel20.
> Is there a generalized email server that can send a person a uuencoded
> copy of a file from any anonymously-ftpable machine?

Our own mail server is taken care of by my fellow moderator Harri
Valkama (hv@uwasa.fi) so he would know better about mail servers.
In general the FTP site must have an email server installed, so the
person would have to contact the moderator of the relevant site for
the information.  As for SIMTEL20, the mail server information is
posted every now and then to comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives.

> Shaun.
>
> --
>   atman@ecst.csuchico.edu  ||  Sing ho! for the life of a bear.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland

From ts@uwasa.fi Tue May  5 13:42:22 1992
Subject: Re: On links and garbo policies
To: bsrdp@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Hylton Boothroyd)
Date: Tue, 5 May 92 13:42:22 EET DST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO

> Timo,

Hello Hylton,

Thank you for a very interesting message, which actually has two
parts.  The first about the transfer rates from the listed sites,
and the latter an evaluation of garbo.uwasa.fi archives. I have
nothing further on the former, but I would like to add a few
comments to the latter and make shall make this material publicly
available in garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/post09.txt feedback and
information file.

> For this reply I've added Lee at ic.ac.uk.
>
> To my original note:
>
> I saw the same posting and got one of our comms people to run traceroute
> for me - it is regarded as too heavy on net resources to make available
> publicly!
>
>  My summary of links with Warwick is:
>
>     wsmr-simtel20.army.mil   12 hops, about 0.5 sec per hop, but with
>                              slight bottlenecks in London and into/in
>                              simtel20 taking 1-3 sec
>
>     oak.oakland.edu          12 hops, about 0.5 sec per hop, with same
>                              slight bottleneck in London
>
>     garbo.uwasa.fi           11 hops, about 3.5 sec per hop for the 7 hops
>                              in Europe, plus some failures to connect
>
>     src.doc.ic.ac.uk          6 hops, about 0.1 sec per hop
>
>  check done on Fri May 1 09:16 BST 1992
>
>  Even though they measure rather different things, the inverses of these
>  hop times are qualitatively similar to the rate at which transfers take
>  place - tens of Kb per sec for ic, several Kb per sec for oak and
>  simtel20, and fractions of 1 Kb for garbo.
>
> you replied
>
> > Thank you for this information.  I'll pass it on to a few people who
> > I think will be interested, too.  Perhaps we can work out the
> > practical implications.
>
> and copied to most people listed above.
>
> For getting simtel20 files I think no general change is needed.  Keith
> already recommends UK users to use the simtel20 mirror at ic, and I do
> too.
>
> Whether it is worth doing anything about mirroring garbo outside
> mainland Europe depends on
>   a) volume of traffic from garbo to UK and rest-of-world,
>   b) the perceived value of mirroring your particular mixture of
>      part-mirror, part get-it-first, part keep-it-selective archive.
>
> Only you have the info for (a). If traffic from the UK warrants it, then it
> may be that ic could be a good site for the rest of the world.

In fact some of the information for (a) is available. We have two
download statistics. A monthly annotated one for MsDos, and a weekly
for all files. The weekly list (I sent you a sample) contains
information on the number of requests from the requesting sites.
That gives some indication although not the Kb traffic.

The monthly list is posted to comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives, but the
weekly list is not.  But it is sent out on a regular basis to the
people on Garbo infolist.  (Please see garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/
infolist.txt for information on what is required to get included on
that list).

> On (b), here is a starting view which is simply the opinion on value I
> offer to UK subscribers in
>         simtel20::pd1:<msdos.info>ftp2uk23.inf

Naturally this is very interesting for us at garbo.uwasa.fi. Thanks!
Let me tell some of my views on garbo.uwasa.fi policies as compared
to SIMTEL20.

SIMTEL20 offers a broad basis of MsDos and Windows material.  Garbo
has a different, complementary policy.  We try to specialize above
all in MsDos utilities, with an emphasis on some categories while
trying to avoid getting involved in some others.  To accommodate our
kind uploaders my hard-working fellow moderator Harri Valkama
sometimes is too kind to say no.  I have taken a harder line on the
offered categories, with BBS utilities, recreational games, and gifs
as a few examples of my refusals.  Furthermore, I am not too happy
about the sound and animation entertainment at garbo, but I do not
want to be a complete spoil sport.  At the moment I am a bit worried
of us again drifting to the role mass repository unless we enforce
the bit more restrictive line.  Nowadays we tend to be quite swamped
with the kind uploads in the "fringe" areas, and I am definitely
getting worried about that.

What we particularly wish to have is classy Turbo Pascal material
(my own specialization), classy MsDos utilities to support MsDos
usage (see /pc/pd2/bestpr22.zip for the gems), scientific programs,
programs that are useful in education (we are a University with one
of its main lines in business economics), information in some areas
like the lists we have in our /pc/pd2 and /pc/filelist directories,
etc.

We have a very nice cooperation with SIMTEL20 moderator Keith
Petersen and we exchange much information.  However, we do not try
to be a subset of SIMTEL20.  That's sometimes mistakenly assumed by
our users.  But it is natural that we end up with much same quality
material.

Whenever time permits I also try to come up with occasional program
reviews about programs on garbo to have more depth in the operation.
My only regret here is that this has not caught on with other users
on the net.

>  garbo.uwasa.fi
>  Offers a quasi-mirror in its directory
>        /pc
>  though the directory also contains some non-SIMTEL20 material.
>  Some good and bad features from the point of view of SIMTEL20 users
>  are:
>    +   competes to make most worthwhile things available quickly, and
>        indeed to persuade software authors to make it a repository of
>        first resort, but ...

This is not strictly true looked at from the inside. I do not feel
we are in a competition, and we are not trying to pre-empt the
uploads from each other.

>    -   adds only a subset of what is added to SIMTEL20, though I guess
>        that users will find at least 90% of what they want;
>    +   holds only about 20% of what is on SIMTEL20 - as an active
>        utility writer the moderator excludes also-ran's and me-too's, so
>        the average quality of general utilities is high;
>    -   holds only about 20% of what is on SIMTEL20 - so some
>        applications topics are entirely missing;
>    -   repacks some .ARCs to .ZIPs, with SIMIBM.ARC as
>                /pc/filelist/simibm.zip ;

I fail to see why this is a (-).  I would have rated it as a (+).

>    +/- accepts some .LZHs ( see nic.funet.fi above for comments )

I am not happy about the .LZHs which are a result of a nic.funet.fi
quirk.

>    -   uses a thematic directory structure coarser than that of
>        SIMTEL20, with subtly different directory names and sometimes
>        different filenames, but ...

I will not disagree.  But as with some other items on this list it
is good to have in mind what I wrote above of us not trying to be a
SIMTEL20 subset.  In fact, we do not take our cues in organizing our
FTP archives from any outside model.  We are independent in this
respect, and build our directory structures and make our policies
(for the better or worse) based on our own ideas and views.

>    +   announces details of additions quickly, with full pathname (but
>        look out for corrections) and often with evaluative comments, on
>        comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives;
>    +   maintains an index list
>                /pc/filelist/garboidx.arc
>        with brief descriptions similar to SIMIBM.IDX but perhaps a
>        little more evaluative;

Yes, a better refence for garbo MsDos files, though, is
/pc/INDEX.ZIP.

>    -   has no cross reference from SIMTEL20 pathnames;

Agreed that it is a (-), but again we are not a SIMTEL20 subset.
However when Keith or I get something for us both (we occasionally
acquire material together), we try to give the path at both the
sites in our announcements.

>    -   often (50%+ of my requests) declares itself unable to provide a
>        directory listing using 'dir' (a persistent bug) though a list of
>        names-only is available using 'ls';

I think ( = I sincerely hope) that this piece of information is now
totally out of date.

>    -   despite being geographically nearer to the UK is connected
>        through busy networks that make file transfers noticeably slower
>        than from wuarchive and oak.

One trick. At least experienced users should use automated FTP
garbo.uwasa.fi:/unix/ftp/batchftp102.tar.Z to counter these problems
and to rationalize the simultaneous users' connection load.

> Hylton
> ---
> Hylton Boothroyd        h.boothroyd@warwick.ac.uk     or, if necessary:
> Warwick Business School Janet:    h.boothroyd@uk.ac.warwick
> University of Warwick   Internet: h.boothroyd%warwick.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
> COVENTRY, CV4 7AL       Uucp:     h.boothroyd@warwick.uucp
> Phone (+44) 203 523523  Earn/Bitnet: h.boothroyd%uk.ac.warwick@UKACRL

Thanks again for the good and interesting comments.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland

From rab@sprite.berkeley.edu Wed May  6 15:11:15 EET 1992
Article: 3802 of comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
From: rab@sprite.berkeley.edu (Robert A. Bruce)
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
Subject: Garbo MSDOS/MAC Archive on CDROM for $25
Message-ID: <u830gINNqfh@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: 6 May 92 07:48:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 61
NNTP-Posting-Host: jaywalk.berkeley.edu
Status: RO

The Garbo Archive, from the University of Vaasa, Finland, is now
available on CDROM.  It contains about 400 meg of software, 250 meg
for Msdos and 150 meg for Macintosh.  There is a huge variety of
stuff on the disc.  If you want more details, just ftp to
garbo.uwasa.fi, and look in the directories /pc and /mac.  In North
America, you can look at the mirror site wuarchive.wustl.edu.  I
took a snapshot of the archives on 3 April, and then collected all
the new files on 18 April, so it should be current as of that date.

The disc conforms to the ISO-9660 standard, the most common and
generic CDROM format.  You can read it on almost any system.  No
special software is required to use the disc.

The disc costs $25.  If you are the author of any software contained
in the archive, I will send you a free disc.  There is a limit of
one free disc per person, so if you have written stuff on both the
Garbo and Simtel CDROM, then you can have one or the other for free,
but not both.

Shipping and handling is $5 (per order, not per disc) for US/Canada,
and $10 for overseas.  If you live in California, please add sales
tax.  You can send a check or money order to

    Bob Bruce
    Walnut Creek CDROM
    1547 Palos Verdes, Suite 260
    Walnut Creek, CA  94596

Or you can order by MasterCard or Visa.  If you do not trust email
with your credit card number, you can call me at

    +1 800 786-9907
    +1 510 947-5996
    +1 510 947-1644 FAX

I have made several other discs, so send me email, or give me a
call, if you want a list.  I am open to suggestions for new CDROMs,
so if there are collections of software or information that you
would like to have on CDROM, please let me know.

If you live in Europe, you can get your disc faster and cheaper by
buying it from one of these companies:
===================================================================
        British Software Licensing
        280 (T/L) West Princes Street
        Woodlands
        Glasgow   G4 9EU
        UNITED KINGDOM

        Graham_Robertson@vme.glasgow.ac.uk
        +44 41 339 8855 x 5021
        +44 41 339 7264
===================================================================
        WasaWare Oy
        Harri Valkama
        Palosaarentie 31
        SF-65200 VAASA
        FINLAND

        Telephone & Fax: 358 61 173365
        Email: hv@uwasa.fi
===================================================================

From ts@uwasa.fi Thu May  7 08:05:55 EET 1992
Article: 15499 of comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d
Path: uwasa.fi!ts
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Subject: Re: (administrative) cbip.d has failed
Message-ID: <1992May7.045008.1753@uwasa.fi>
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
References: <1992May6.020401.22151@borland.com> <1992May6.060634.3995@uwasa.fi> <1992May6.123632.773@aspentec.com>
Date: Thu, 7 May 1992 04:50:08 GMT
Lines: 52
Status: RO

In article <1992May6.123632.773@aspentec.com> jwalsh@aspentec.com (Jamie Walsh) writes:
>I wasn't on the net during the period that c.b.i.p.d was split into the
>three groups, but my personal opinion is that the combined traffic barely
>warranted the split in the first place.  c.b.i.p.(archives/d/wanted)
>added together have far fewer messages than many other single newsgroups
>that I attempt to read, or at least scan the titles, daily.

I agree with you Jamie.  Therefore a bit of history for general
interest.  The split was originally suggested, not because of the
volume of the traffic, but because the previous cbip moderator
definitely wanted Keith's and my FTP upload announcements out of
cbip.d as off-topic postings.  That's how it started.  Simple as
that.

When the vote was taken we actually had two simultaneous votings.
One was for creating a new cbip discussion subgroup on the side of
cbip.d, the other was on how many new groups to create.  The options
were thus in effect choosing between 0, 1, or 2 new cbip subgroups.
As history has it, the "2" suggestion won out.  In the appropriate
discussion in news.groups I tried to argue for the "1" option, but
gave up, went with the tide and voted for "2".

I am not professing a divine foresight here.  But the situation
might be easier now if we would only have had a new
"comp.binaries.ibm.pc.ms&windows-ftp-sites-upload-announcements" and
cbip.d would have continued in its role of _*BOTH*_ cbip.d and
cbip.wanted.  As Doug McDonald quite correctly in effect points out
in his comments to my postings, what users do is taking cbip.d into
that direction whatever the charter.  That existing pressure from
the everyday practice of cbip.d explains why we have this uneasy
situation in cbip.  As I said in another posting on this, cbip.d now
lacks a proper function.  There is no doubt about it any more.
There simply are not enough postings for cbip.d, if and when the
charter is taken literally.

I reapeat that I do not claim that I knew all this at the time, but
the events seem bear out that we might have been much better off
with the "1" solution where cbip.d and cbip.wanted would have been a
single group, and cbip.archives the only new group.

My very best compliments to Bob Sloane for doing the work and kindly
taking us through the official steps of the charter drawing and the
voting process.  The above is just an analysis of the situation.  I
am trying to understand the situation, not stress that there might
have been even a better solution way back then if I would have had
my own choice of having just cbip.d and cbip.archives.

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


-From sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Fri May  8 07:09:20 EET 1992
From: sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane)
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d
Subject: Re: (administrative) cbip.d has failed
Message-ID: <1992May7.094057.39976@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
Date: 7 May 92 09:40:57 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services
Lines: 70

In article <1992May7.045008.1753@uwasa.fi>, ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes:
> In article <1992May6.123632.773@aspentec.com> jwalsh@aspentec.com (Jamie Walsh) writes:
>>I wasn't on the net during the period that c.b.i.p.d was split into the
>>three groups, but my personal opinion is that the combined traffic barely
>>warranted the split in the first place.  c.b.i.p.(archives/d/wanted)
>>added together have far fewer messages than many other single newsgroups
>>that I attempt to read, or at least scan the titles, daily.
>
> I agree with you Jamie.  Therefore a bit of history for general
> interest.  The split was originally suggested, not because of the
> volume of the traffic, but because the previous cbip moderator
> definitely wanted Keith's and my FTP upload announcements out of
> cbip.d as off-topic postings.  That's how it started.  Simple as
> that.

As I remeber it, Bill Davidsen (the cbip moderator at the time) wanted
the group split up because he didn't have the time to keep up with all
the non-cbip related articles and missing parts articles.  I looked at
the current traffic and the obvious divisions were missing parts
articles and ftp site announcements, so that is what I put up for
discussion. I seem to recall Bill specifically objecting to leaving
"wanted" articles in the .d group.  Since that was what he wanted,
that was the way I did it.

> When the vote was taken we actually had two simultaneous votings.
> One was for creating a new cbip discussion subgroup on the side of
> cbip.d, the other was on how many new groups to create.

There were two votes run in paralell, one on whether or not to create
cbip.archives, and one on whether or not to create cbip.wanted. Any
other vote would have been invalid by the newsgroup creation
guidelines.

> The options
> were thus in effect choosing between 0, 1, or 2 new cbip subgroups.
> As history has it, the "2" suggestion won out.  In the appropriate
> discussion in news.groups I tried to argue for the "1" option, but
> gave up, went with the tide and voted for "2".

Creating only one other group would not have achieved the goal of the
split, to keep cbip.d as a group for only discussing programs posted
to cbip.  As things turned out, it didn't work, but that is hindsite.

> As Doug McDonald quite correctly in effect points out
> in his comments to my postings, what users do is taking cbip.d into
> that direction whatever the charter.  That existing pressure from
> the everyday practice of cbip.d explains why we have this uneasy
> situation in cbip.  As I said in another posting on this, cbip.d now
> lacks a proper function.  There is no doubt about it any more.
> There simply are not enough postings for cbip.d, if and when the
> charter is taken literally.

Reducing the number of articles in cbip.d was the whole idea of the
split.  Bill wanted to have a channel where problems with programs
posted to cbip could be reported and that he would actually have time
to read.  Since we now have a new moderator, maybe this isn't so much
of a problem.

As for the users taking cbip.d in whatever direction they want, there
isn't much that can be done about it.  Personally, I have stopped
responding to off topic articles in cbip.d.  I still read cbip.wanted
and remind users there of the missing parts server I run here, but I
have stopped responding to missing parts articles in other groups. If
posters can't take the trouble to find out what is appropriate in a
group, then I don't see any reason to waste my time responding to
them. I will probably stop reading cbip.d completely soon, since there
is little of interest there anymore.
--
USmail: Bob Sloane, University of Kansas Computer Center, Lawrence, KS, 66045
E-mail: sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu, sloane@ukanvax.bitnet, AT&T: (913)864-0444


-From ts@uwasa.fi Fri May  8 07:09:44 EET 1992
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d
Path: uwasa.fi!ts
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Subject: Re: (administrative) cbip.d has failed
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
Date: Thu, 7 May 1992 21:05:36 GMT
Lines: 60

In article <1992May7.094057.39976@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane) writes:
>As I remeber it, Bill Davidsen (the cbip moderator at the time) wanted
>the group split up because he didn't have the time to keep up with all
>the non-cbip related articles and missing parts articles.  I looked at

Yes Bob, this was exactly Bill's argument that was finally dragged
out of him as the reason why he objected to Keith's and my FTP
upload announcements in the pre-organization cbip.d.

>discussion. I seem to recall Bill specifically objecting to leaving
>"wanted" articles in the .d group.  Since that was what he wanted,
>that was the way I did it.

Besides originally objecting to the FTP upload postings Bill did not
participate to the reorganization.  In fact he did not even cast a
vote I seem to recall.  All the hard work to organize the new system
and get it passed was done by one person, you Bob.  I want to
compliment your decisive contribution.

>Creating only one other group would not have achieved the goal of the
>split, to keep cbip.d as a group for only discussing programs posted
>to cbip.  As things turned out, it didn't work, but that is hindsite.

Yes, I readily confirm that, and therefore I stressed that I did not
know in advance.  I am not trying to shout an "I told so", because
that would be dishonest and unfair from me.

>Reducing the number of articles in cbip.d was the whole idea of the
>split.  Bill wanted to have a channel where problems with programs

Well, yes and no.  That is what Bill wanted, all right.  But what
Keith and I wanted was a group for the FTP site upload annoucements.
You have to recall that by the time Bill had all but ceased posting
and most of the work in cbip.d was done by Keith and yours truly,
not Bill.  Keith and I together held up the group together for the
last months before the reorganization.  Please note that again I am
not criticizing anyone by this, nor beating my own drum.  I
appreciate Bill's considerable contributions as the cbip moderator.
I am just trying to fill in the rest of the picture of what really
happened so that we can better understand the background of the
current situation in the light of cbip.d history.

>As for the users taking cbip.d in whatever direction they want, there
>isn't much that can be done about it.  Personally, I have stopped

Yes, repeating myself, I think I have to begin to agree now, and
start giving up.  But we (Keith, I, and a couple of others) did
manage to salvage the cbip.wanted and cbip.archives groups which
were going down the same drain but for our efforts and guidance.

>USmail: Bob Sloane, University of Kansas Computer Center, Lawrence, KS, 66045
>E-mail: sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu, sloane@ukanvax.bitnet, AT&T: (913)864-0444

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


-From ts@uwasa.fi Sat May  9 08:56:58 EET 1992
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d
Path: uwasa.fi!ts
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Subject: Re: (administrative) cbip.d has failed
Message-ID: <1992May9.055630.268@uwasa.fi>
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
References: <1992May8.102708.782@aspentec.com> <1992May8.234751.26300@uwasa.fi> <1992May9.021438.21277@ulowell.ulowell.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 May 1992 05:56:30 GMT
Lines: 107

In article <1992May9.021438.21277@ulowell.ulowell.edu> oneill@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian 'Doc' O'Neill) writes:
> I guess it is about time for my input...

I am pleased for that, because at least as far as cbip.d is
concerned as a companion group to cbip, the moderator of cbip has an
interest at stake, and should have a very decisive say.

> For the old-timers on the net, I was the one who originally got
> comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d created shortly after CBIP was moderated. The intent
> was unmoderated discussion about what went on with CBIP - basically,
> discussing about the programs that were posted and CBIP policies. Eventually
> the group became inundated with extraneous material ("Where can I get..",
> "How do I...", etc.). I then pulled away from CBIP because it became to
> time-consuming to keep an eye on. Others remembered the original idea, and
> since they couldn't stop the postings, they reformed the group to help
> filter it out. I have since come back, obviously...

Yes.  This in fact completes the list of five people who have been
most involved in setting the process going and / or seeing it
through.  These five people are Bill Davidsen, who wanted something
done about the FTP announcement situation in the former cbip.d, Bob
Sloane who drew the charters and took the official steps needed in
news.groups, you Brian O'Neill as you describe, and Keith Petersen
and Timo Salmi who held up cbip.d during the last moths before the
reorganization, and who have inserted the most effort and guidance
after that in all the cbip discussion subgroups.

> I still think CBIP.d should be used what it was originally meant for. Only
> discussions about what goes on inside CBIP should take place here. "Request"
> postings should go in CBIP.wanted. Archive information should go to
> CBIP.archives.

When you, Brian, as the cbip moderator say so that is highly
significant, and I'll naturally be behind you all the way.  Perhaps
you as the cbip moderator might consider taking up little bit less
reticent line to the cbip.d problems (in particular) in the future.
This is an auspicious and appreciated response from you in that
respect.

> There is one problem with this though. Where do discussions about the
> archives go? There is nothing in the charter for this, but my feeling is
> that discussions about the archives should also go to CBIP.archives,
> although it is likely to increase the noise in that group.

In practice that Keith's and my "province", because as SIMTEL20 and
garbo.uwasa.fi moderators we provide the most material and work in
cbip.archives.  (It is fair to predict that if we left,
cbip.archives would probably not survive, unless someone else took
up it all in a big way).  As it is, I have often solicited program
reviews of the uploaded programs (with meagre but some results) from
the authors.  Furthermore, as the charter has it, the reports on the
uploaded programs belong to cbip.archives.  The problem is that in
any prolonged discussion the subject tends to drift away from what
is covered in the cbip.archives charter, and one option has been to
try to direct any _prolonged_ discussion to comp.os.msdos.apps.  You
are right, this issue is perhaps not resolved clearly enough in the
charters.

But to go on.  As in fact indicated by your text a little earlier
above, we have similar questions not covered in the charter.  That
is discussing the cbip and cbip discussion subgroup policies,
because we have needed that discussion on more than the current
occasion.  By a tacit agreement these discussions have always been
directed to cbip.d (cbip."discussion").  I think that this is a fair
(and unavoidable) practice and we should continue it.

Another question, which you (Brian) and I (Timo) already once
pondered, was, where should the missing parts postings go.  As I
recall we came to the conclusion that cbip.d would have been a good
place for them, but for the charter directing (also) them to
cbip.wanted.

> There is the possibility of another Renaming, but that could prove more
> disasterous than helpful.

This is definitely so, and every other avenue should be exhausted
first.  The best and strongly preferred solution would be that the
kind users would pay reasonable attention to the charters.  At least
to such a degree that we would not get a prohibitive number of
off-topic postings in cbip.d (or any cbip group, naturally).
Occasional mistakes and borderline cases are certainly no problem.
We all make mistakes, I do all the time.  But letting the group just
evolve without any guidance can lead to a disaster, too.  Repeating
myself once again, at the outset it almost did, but at least
cbip.wanted and cbip.archives were salvaged.

I am pleased to have tried to put in my share and hopefully even a
contribution.  The only true gripe which I have are the 2-3
individuals who have abused and insulted me personally for the
efforts I have inserted to the cbip discussion subgroups.  Everyone
has one's faults, and I know that mine is that I tend to harbor
grudges if having been treated unfairly.  My reward is the the many
kind words I have got from a great number of other users.

> =======================================================================
> Brian O'Neill - Systems Manager, Computer Science      (508) 934-3645
> University of Massachusetts at Lowell
> Internet: oneill@ulowell.edu          Moderator, comp.binaries.ibm.pc

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland



From ts@uwasa.fi Sat May  9 07:40:18 1992
Subject: Re: msdos FORWARD slash hack wanted
To: datta@cs.uwp.edu (David Datta)
Date: Sat, 9 May 92 7:40:18 EET DST
In-Reply-To: <199205090412.AA09906@cs.uwp.edu>; from "David Datta" at May 8, 92 11:12 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO

> You asked why one would want to change the "\" to a "/" well, in my
> case it is because most of the time, I use a Unix box which uses the
> "/" for directories. It would be handy to not to have to remember where
> I am to do the / or \.
>
>
> I have gotten in the habit of doing
>
> cd path1
> cd path2
> cd path3
>
> to get to /path1/path2/path3 rather than try to stop an accidental /
> when I needed a \ (I type these from force of habit.)

Well, in fact I guessed as much, and that's why I asked.  You can
circumvent this problem altogether by using my C.BAT from
83111 Apr 14 08:05 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/ts/tsbat35.zip.

The syntax is

   c path1 path2 path3

I use C.BAT all the time my self, and therefore have C.BAT at my
path.

I'll post this answer to the news because I have a solution to the
problem.

> --
> -Dave datta@cs.uwp.edu.
>
> Going on means going far. Going far means returning.
>

What does this mean?  Going far takes means.  Means take us far.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


From ts@uwasa.fi Sun May 10 22:36:21 1992
Subject: Re: ASKENV -> ANSWER
To: cerrlss@techunix.technion.ac.il (Shahar Steiff)
Date: Sun, 10 May 92 22:36:21 EET DST
In-Reply-To: <9205101129.AA02264@techunix.technion.ac.il>; from "Shahar Steiff" at May 10, 92 2:29 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO

>
> Shalom Prof' Timo Salmi !
>
> In search for a certain utility I came across the ASKENV.EXE utility
> that you have uploaded in the "tsbat35.zip".
> I'm searching for a utility almost identical to the ASKENV, with the
> only difference that it should modify the enviroment variable named
> ANSWER rather than ASKENV.
> This utility is to be used in a batch file that controls a simulator
> that was given to an instructor here. The problem with the simulator is
> that the ANSWER.COM or ANSWER.EXE files are missing... I have "reverse
> engineered" the batch file to find out what this utility should be doing.
>
> I would be most gratefull (and so will be the guy who came to me with
> the "I can't get this program to work"...) if you could send me either
> the code, or a compiled and revised utility that modifies ANSWER rather
> than ASKENV. (Alternatively, is there a way to copy one enviroment
> variable into another ?).
>
> Let me suggest a small revision to the ASKENV utility :
> Suppose other people come up with problems simmilar to mine. Would'nt it
> be simpler to modify this utility so that it changes the variable that
> has the utility's name (which is argument no. 0 in most cases).?
> That way, if I want to deal with an enviromant variable named ANSWER I
> simply rename ASKENV.EXE to ANSWER.EXE and so on...
>
>               All the best.
>
>                               Shahar.
>
> --
> *************** S E N T  -  B Y *************************************
> * Shahar Steiff  *  Computing and Process Control Engineer          *
> * Dept. of Chemical Engineering, Technion IIT, Haifa, ISRAEL 32000  *
> * Phone:(+)972-4-293420   Fax.(+)972-4-230476             Room 318  *
> * E-Mail:cerrlss@techunix.technion.ac.il   cerrlss@technion.bitnet  *
> *        cerrlss@vmsa.technion.ac.il                                *
> * Snail-Mail: Kibbutz Ramat-Yochanan, 30035, Israel  Tel. 04-459536 *
> *********************************************************************
> Today's fortune : (Added automaticaly, don't blame me for its contents)
> Stop searching.  Happiness is right next to you.

Hello Shahar,

Thank you for your query which I copied in full since a copy of this
reply goes to garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/post09.zip information file.

The solution to the whole dilemma is very simple as given by the
example batch below

askenv Give your input: /l
set answer=%askenv%

That is all there is to it.  No reprogramming of ASKENV.EXE is
needed to achieve what you wished for.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland

From ts@uwasa.fi Wed May 13 01:39:12 EET 1992
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Subject: Snipper and DosClip patching
Message-ID: <1992May12.223739.10118@uwasa.fi>
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
Date: Tue, 12 May 1992 22:37:39 GMT
Lines: 69
Status: RO

There are two excellent TSR capture-type utilities that originate
from the PC Magazine. They are /pc/screen/snippr24.zip and
dosclip.com from /pc/pcmag/vol11n07.zip.

Snipper is a selective screen capture utility with the default hot
key as Alt W. Dosclip is a cut-and-paste utility that cuts areas
from the screen and pastes to the keyboard buffer. The default hot
keys are Alt C and Alt V.

The problem with the default hot keys is that they are too ordinary
and many programs use them.  This is inconvenient since if you have
Snipper and/or Dosclip loaded they will preempt their hot keys. Thus
it is desirable to have a way to patch Snipper and Dosclip to alter
the hot keys. One alternative is to use a binary editor. I will give
the outlines how to do this with /pc/binedit/fed153.zip which is an
excellent shareware binary editor.

You'll also need to have the scancodes for the relevant keys. As one
alternative you can use /pc/keyboard/keyb21.zip to find out.
Furthermore you'll need a program to convert between decimal and
hexadecimal. One alternative is my own /pc/ts/tsbits17.zip.

As a disclaimer on patching note that both these utilities invite
legitimate patching of the hot keys.

Let us start with how to change Dosclip Alt C to Crtl < and Alt V to
Alt >.

First call fed dosclip.com and you'll have

              00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F
             +-----------------------------------------------+
      0050   !31 34 2C 20 31 39 39 32 0D 0A 24 1A 70 70 00 B0!
      0060   !70 71 00 B8 00 04 00 00 2E 08 2F 08 00 00 00 00!
      0070   !00 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF!
             +-----------------------------------------------+

Move the binary cursor to row 0060 column 08 which has 2E for the
scancode of key C. Press alt h to invoke the hex-edit mode, and
change 2E 08 2F 08 to 56 04 56 08. Press alt w to write the changes
and esc to exit fed.  If you want to you can also change the message
  Copy key is Alt  C
  Paste key is Alt  V
to give the altered keys. That is a trivial alpha mode (alt a)
patching task that does not require special guidance. Just find the
text and alter it.


For Snipper you'll have

              00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F
             +-----------------------------------------------+
      0060   !00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00!
      0070   !4B 45 59 20 53 43 41 4E 20 43 4F 44 45 2D 3E 11!
      0080   !53 48 49 46 54 20 4D 41 53 4B 2D 2D 2D 2D 3E 08!
      0090   !41 6C 72 65 61 64 79 20 49 6E 73 74 61 6C 6C 65!
             +-----------------------------------------------+

The key scan code is 11 at row 0070 column 0F indicating the W key
scancode. The shift status 08 is at row 0080 column 0F. To alter the
default hot key you'll have to pacth these.  I have a Finnish
keyboard and I have Ctrl 1/2 as my hotkey.  This means changing the
11 to 29 and the 08 to 04.

This was for snipper version 2.4.  For version 2.5 the addresses are
0070 06 and 0080 06.

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


From ts@uwasa.fi Fri May 22 06:51:51 1992
Subject: Re: BESTPR24, duplication of work?
To: vik@sequent.com (Vikram Lall)
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 6:51:51 EET DST
Cc: (Garbo Infolist), w8sdz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Keith Petersen)
In-Reply-To: <9205212251.AA05715@eng3.sequent.com>; from "Vikram Lall" at May 21, 92 3:51 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O

> There is another list floating around, that seems to be a good
> compilation.  Perhaps the two of you could combine your work.
>
> Its been advertised as bw2-31.zip.
>
> -vik
>
> > From:    ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
> > Subject: BESTPR24.ZIP list of best PD & shareware programs
:
> > Tue 19-May-92: I have updated my subjective list of the best PD and
> > shareware programs. It is now
> > 6016 May 19 07:16 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/bestpr24.zip

Hello Vikram,

There is a common misunderstanding about my bestpr24.zip list.  Also
other kind users have been sending me welcome suggestions of
additions to this list.  But this list is my _subjective_ choice.
This list is about what have been the most valuable (the best)
programs for myself.  I am not looking for a concensus in this one.
Thus the list cannot be merged.  Likewise, although I will be happy
to look at others' suggestions, one cannot actually submit to this
list.

Thus what is generally the most popular is consequetly another
question.  In fact long ago we even had a discussion and a kind of a
vote on that.  (The result was ambiguous, and I do not have it any
more).  As for generally popular programs, some indication is given
by our weekly and mothly download statistics at garbo.  Both are
stored in the /pc/filelist directory and the latter is also posted
to comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives as it comes out at the turn of each
month.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


From dmurdoch@watstat.uwaterloo.ca Thu May 21 18:02:30 1992
From: Duncan Murdoch <dmurdoch@watstat.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: TSGMED12.ZIP Learn national flags as educational game (fwd)
To: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Date: Thu, 21 May 92 11:02:00 EDT
In-Reply-To: <9205211316.AA25159@uwasa.fi>; from "Timo Salmi" at May 21, 92 4:16 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO

By the way, your FLAGGAME is one of my 5-year-old son's favourites.
I'll have to get him started on the quiz soon - he's amazing me by his
progress at reading.

Duncan




From ts@uwasa.fi Sat May 23 18:54:45 1992
Subject: Re: logrun batch utility in TSBAT35
To: israel@math.ubc.ca (Robert Israel)
Date: Sat, 23 May 92 18:54:45 EET DST
In-Reply-To: <9205222023.AA00167@descartes>; from "Robert Israel" at May 22, 92 1:23 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O

> I recently downloaded your very useful batch utilities collection
> TSBAT35.ZIP from wuarchive.wustl.edu.  I have a small suggestion for
> "logrun.bat".  Currently it produces entries such as
>
> Calling y:qf.exe at
> Current time is  13:47:53.97
> Enter new time:
> Current date is Fri  5-22-1992
> Enter new date (mm-dd-yy):
> *******************************************************************
>
> Why not remove the extra "garbage" produced by the time and date
> commands? You could do this by replacing the two lines that call
> time and date by
>
> echo.|time|askenv /b
> set %askenv_%=%askenv%
> echo.|date|askenv /b
> call logrun1 %askenv_% %askenv%
> set askenv_=
> set askenv=
>
> where the file logrun1.bat contains the single line
>
> echo %4 %8 %9>>%logfile_%
>
> This produces an entry that looks like
>
> Calling y:qf.exe at
> 13:47:53.97 Fri 5-22-1992
> *******************************************************************
>
> You could, if you wish, dispense with the need for the second batch
> file logrun1.bat by having logrun call itself: on these calls,
> parameter %1 will be "Current".

Thank you for your useful tip Robert.  I'll inlucde it in my
garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/post09.txt feedback file. There is a rough
alternative solution to weed out the extra "garbage" by adding the
following kind of a line
 find /v "Enter new " %logfile_% > r:\proguse2.log
after the "colcluding message" echo in the batch. The advantage is
that no customized program is needed since find comes with MsDos.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland

From ts@uwasa.fi Sun May 24 09:56:51 EET 1992
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Subject: Observations from garbo user log
Message-ID: <1992May24.065541.21640@uwasa.fi>
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
Date: Sun, 24 May 1992 06:55:41 GMT
Lines: 68
Status: RO

As the gentle downloaders from garbo.uwasa.fi probably know all the
transactions and their origins (perpetrators :-) are recorded in our
logs which are stored for a week.  This enables us to run our weekly
statistics which are available as eg
  4498 May 18 08:48 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/filelist/ftplog20.lst
for the last week.  It also enables us to see what the users are
doing, and monitor if something loads garbo excessively.  Likewise
we have a similar logging system for the mail server users.  I have
some observations which might be of general interest to our users.

1) I am very pleased to see that a great majority of our users go
about their retrievals in an orderly and efficient manner.

2) Then some problems.  To log in by anonymous FTP you should use
"anonymous" and give your email address as the ident.  It is
surprising how many users have the same email address :-), that is
either "guest", "anonymous", or even "-".  We'd rather you didn't,
but used the proper ident instead.  For example wuarchive FTP
notifies automatically users with an improper ident.

3) Some users tend browse extensively.  I understand that when one
is new to the system and wants to get to know one's way around.  But
there are users who do that repeatedly in long sessions.  This is
not such a good idea.  A much better solution is to get the file
lists like /pc/INDEX.ZIP /pc/INDEXTS.ZIP, and /pc/DIRNAMES, and then
browse locally at your own pace.

4) A few users download the same file over and over again.  One of
the likely reason is having failed to set the transfer binary (for
the binary files, that is the great majority).  Another likely
reason is using an old version of an unpacker at one's PC and
thinking that the package is corrupt.  It is very common that the
users send reports to me about allegedly corrupt .zip packages when
they have used an old version of PKUNZIP instead of the current 1.10
version.  (It is not impossible, but it is *very* *very* rare that a
package really is corrupt at a site like garbo or SIMTEL20).

5) Some users fail to close their connection properly.  Don't forget
to end your session by a "close" command.  In fact there are several
working alternatives to closing, as we discussed some time ago in
cbip.archives.  The important part is that you use one of them
successfully, and don't leave the connection hanging.

6) The fundamental sin of the mail server users is sending the
exactly same request repeatedly when there is for some reason
something wrong with their mail server request.  The worst is when
users send in repeated requests with unreturnable addresses.  When
many users do this, it often becomes fatal, and probably is the
culprit for most garbo crashes.  Please ask your own site's system
manager to construct a returnable mail path for you before sending
in the repeat requests, especially if you never managed to get
anything from our mail server!  At the very least DO _NOT_ SEND IN A
BIG BUNCH OF REQUESTS when you are experiencing problems.  First
resolve the cause of your problem!

What I say here is not to hamper or restrict our welcome users, but
to help you to be more efficient in respects you might not come to
think of.  One trick which I have regularly recommended to the
experienced garbo users, with a BSD host, is using automated FTP:
 29520 Oct 31  1990 garbo.uwasa.fi:/unix/ftp/batchftp102.tar.Z
For instructions see also the ascii file
  1670 May 24 11:51 garbo.uwasa.fi:/unix/ftp/batchftp.inf

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


From aa699@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Sun May 24 17:20:09 EET 1992
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: aa699@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tony Thomas)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: SIMTEL20 & GARBO CD-ROM Reviews
Date: 23 May 92 14:13:08 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 92
Status: RO




                  SIMTEL20 and GARBO CD-ROM Reviews

                               by

                           Tony Thomas



In my never ending quest for new and better PD/Shareware CD-ROMs, I
recently encountered two more that are certainly worthy of a review.
They are the SIMTEL20 MS-DOS Archive and the GARBO CD-ROM, both from
Walnut Creek CD-ROM.  The way these discs were created is indeed
novel--the manufacturer simply took a "snapshot" of two giant
libraries--the SIMTEL20 archive at the US Army Information Systems
Command (White Sands Missle Range, NM) and the GARBO MS-DOS and MAC
archives at the University of Vaasa, Finland.

By getting these archives intact, you benefit by receiving a wide
assortment of programs, utilities, text files and programming tools with
less duplication.  Also, most of programs seem to be the most recent
versions available, making these CDs far more valuable than other ones I
have seen which are often several versions behind in their offerings
(How would you like version 1.0 of a program which is currently up to
version 5.2?).  Since they are ISO-9660 compatible, you should have no
problem accessing them from any standard CD-ROM drive.  Now, on to
specifics:

SIMTEL20: Alas, the mother of all IBM PD/Shareware CD-ROMs!  With 172
(!) directories full of just about any kind of software available (plus
some very useful document files), this ranks as just about the most
extensive collection you are likely to find.  If it exists, it's
probably here somewhere.  The newest version, now in production, will
reportedly have 560MB of data (vs. 430 on the disc I reviewed), more
categories, and file indexes for selected BBS systems such as Opus, RBBS
and PC Board.  Stick this on your BBS and you'll have busy signals for
years!!  Five Stars *****

GARBO: This archive offers 142 (!) directories of IBM, MAC and WINDOWS
software and text files.  250MB of space is devoted to IBM and Windows
programs and 150MB for the Mac. There is a wide assortment of programs
on this disc, including some not found on SIMTEL20.  The directory
structure makes it easy to find programs for each of the three families
of software.  Even though this archive is from Finland, just about
everything is in English, which is good since I didn't want to learn
another language to write this review!  If you are a IBM power user, Mac
fan or Windows addict, this is the disc for you!!  Five Stars *****

I am really impressed with these discs, which are just two of of the
seven currently offered by Walnut Creek Software.  The best part is the
price - only $24.95 each!  That is half of what I paid for the "So Much
Shareware" disc and about 65% of the cost of the Phoenix disc.  Each
disc offers descriptions in each directory and the SIMTEL20 disc also
offers a comprehensive index in the root directory.

You will need ARC, ZIP, ZOO and LZH unzipping tools to get to the
programs on these discs (The latter format is used on GARBO).  They are
provided on the SIMTEL20 disc.  A good DOS SHELL program will also come
in handy since these discs don't have a software browse/decompression
engine (which would have been a nice touch).  The PC Tools 7.1 shell
works especially well since it allows you to view file contents
(including all the archive formats mentioned above) and copy programs
easy.  PC Tools' Filefind utility is also a life saver when searching
for a certain program.  Even an antique like Dave Rand's wonderful
public domain NSWP (Newsweep) program worked great.  My DOS 4.01 choked
on the SIMTEL20 disc--it said that there were just too many files!

There are more goodies on the way from Walnut Creek which deserve a
mention. A new Desktop Library CD-ROM is in the works which I can't wait
to see ($39.95 - available June 1, 1992).  It includes the complete
works of Shakespeare, Chaucer, Virgil, Dante and Milton plus books by
Whitman, Crane, Melville, Poe, Tolstoy, Verne, Dickens, Doyle and other
goodies like the 1991 CIA World Fact Book (which I bought recently for
$29 at discount), Supreme Court decisions, dictionaries, thesaruses and
word lists.  It looks like it may cover the ground of several CD-ROMs
(like the pricey Library of the Future and Microsoft Bookshelf) at a
bargain price.  A GIF CD-ROM (yes!) is also reportedly in the works.
Walnut Creek is putting out some great stuff at rock bottom prices!!
Check it out!!!

For more information contact:

Walnut Creek CD-ROM - 1547 Palos Verdes Mall - Suite 260 - Walnut Creek,
CA  94596. 1-800-786-9907/1-510-947-5996/1-510-947-1644 (FAX)


--
aa699@Cleveland.Freenet.EDU/GEnie=A.THOMAS16/Compuserve:71541,3456
TONY THOMAS - SigOp - The Atari Portfolio SIG - Audio Arts SIG
"True riches is not what you have.  It is what you ARE." - Tony Thomas

From ts@uwasa.fi Tue May 26 23:23:31 1992
Subject: Re: How to unZ and unTAR..
To: CBMIRA01%ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU@FINHUTC.hut.fi (Calvin Miracle)
Date: Tue, 26 May 92 23:23:31 EET DST
In-Reply-To: <199205261353.AA01404@santra.hut.fi>; from "Calvin Miracle" at May 26, 92 8:40 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O

> Just wanted you to know that I found the proper utilities after
> reading your FAQ files.   Thank you a lot!  Take care...
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Calvin Miracle,  University of Louisville, Ekstrom Library
> cbmira01 @ ulkyvm.bitnet, cbmira01 @ ulkyvm.louisville.edu

Hello Calvin,

Every now and then it is good to hear that the /pc/ts/tsfaq28.zip
Frequently Asked Questions actually work for the users.  Thank you
for the feedback.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland

From ts@uwasa.fi Sat May 30 13:05:13 1992
Subject: Re: TSGMED12.ZIP Flaggames
To: schoof@sundae.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Jochen Joscho Schoof)
Date: Sat, 30 May 92 13:05:13 EET DST
In-Reply-To: <9205270928.AA26983@winx21.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>; from "Jochen Joscho Schoof" at May 27, 92 12:28 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O

> I downloaded your Flag-games from Garbo yesterday and would
> like to tell you I really like them. There are just a few
> questions I'd like to ask:

Hello Jochen,

I am very pleased to hear that you liked /ps/ts/tsgmed12.zip.

> 1.) Knowing the 100 included flags quite well (I have to
>     admit I did not know all of the former USSR-republics)
>     I would be happy if I could change them (there are
>     nearly another 100 countries not implemented ;-D ).
>     Can you give me any hint (I don't dare asking for
>     the source files...)?

I am afraid that there is no way to patch the flags.  The routines
are too many and complicated for that.  What you are suggesting is a
kind of flag drawing program, and I have not come to think of that,
and now it is too late and too complicated to do anything about it
in the flaggame and flagquiz.  Besides if you try to patch the
games, their self-test will abort them because they have been
tampered with.  I have taken this precaution since games in
particular are often susceptible to viruses.
   As you guessed the sources are not available, but even if they
were they would not be very useful for another programmer for two
reasons.  The code is rather heavy, and all the documentation,
variables, procedures, and fucntions within the code are in Finnish.

> 2.) In my opinion the flag of Thailand (Siam) is wrong. It
>     is displayed red/blue/red and according to literature
>     has to be red/white/2*blue/white/red. How about
>     updating.

Thanks for the tip.  I'll look into it.

> 3.) I wondered about one of the scandinavian flags (can't
>     remember the state's name, looked like a tongue-twister
>     to my german mind), with a red, yellow-shaded, cross
>     on blue. What exactly is this country? Is it what I
>     know by the name "Aland-Islands" ?

Ah! but that is where the educational nature of the games also comes
to the fore :-).  It is there to whet the player's curiosity to find
out.

> Thanks in advance for answering.
>
> Jochen Schoof

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


From ts@uwasa.fi Sun Jun  7 22:37:25 1992
Subject: Re: Indexes to garbo subdirs
To: hv@garbo.uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 92 22:37:25 EET DST
Cc: tmetro@ds5000.dac.northeastern.edu
In-Reply-To: <9206071633.AA00609@garbo.uwasa.fi>; from "Harri Valkama" at Jun 7, 92 7:33 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O

>    BTW, it helps to have index or readme files in each subdirectory so
>    that a user doesn't transfer an unwanted file. The INDEX files that
>    you have now which cover a large group of files are nice, but can be
>    too long to sift through online (while the ftp is live).

Hello Tom,

In fact that's not the recommended method, since it means hogging
one connection.  The way of the least load is getting the file index
/pc/INDEX.ZIP by automated FTP (/unix/ftp/batchftp102.tar.Z +
batchftp.inf) and read the material off the connection.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


From ts@uwasa.fi Tue Jun  9 06:25:12 1992
Subject: Re: uploading instructions
To: JCAMPIONE@HPB.HWC.CA (Jose Campione)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 6:25:12 EET DST
In-Reply-To: <708040737.370000.JCAMPIONE@HPB.HWC.CA>; from "Jose Campione" at Jun 8, 92 5:58 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O

> I have several programs that I'd like to bring to your consideration.
> Could you please send the uploading instructions to garbo.uwasa.fi or
> to the USA mirror?
>
> Thanks!
> -Jose-
> Jose Campione
> jcampione@hpb.hwc.ca

Hello Jose,

I have sent our upload instructions /pc/UPLOAD.INF to you in a
separate email message.  One additional comment.  The mirroring is a
one way system.  Thus one is not able to submit programs to garbo
through the mirrors.  The only way is to submit to garbo directly.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


From hv@garbo.uwasa.fi Wed Jun 10 08:45:07 1992
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 08:44:46 +0300
Message-Id: <9206100544.AA14230@garbo.uwasa.fi>
To: Gordon_Hooton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Gordon Hooton)
Cc: ts@uwasa.fi, rab@sprite.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: MAC problems with garbo CDROM
Status: RO

>> Timo, I know you are probably very busy, so only answer if you have
>> the time and it is convienient.
>>
>> 1) Do you know if anyone has sucessfully transfered files from your
>> MAC directories through dos to a recipient with a MAC.
>> I can get the MAC SIT file of the CDROM, and unstufit with DOS Unstufit,
>> then transfer to a MAC disk using MAC_DOS (in diskutils).
>> But the MAC user at the end of the process can not read the files (reports
>> only data-no resource forks).
>> Any ideas ??
>
> Sorry, no ideas from me on this half.  I have never used a MAC
> myself and I know nothing about this.  But I can refer this
> question to others by the carbon copy of this message.
>
> Harri & Bob, since this might become a FAQ, please let also me know
> the answer so I can store it to garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/post09.zip.

Yes, it is possible to use these Mac files  although it is  not at all
obvious how that can be done.

First, get  the file from mac/comm dir  called  macbinary.hqx. This is
BinHexed file so it can be decoded using Stuffit v1.5.x or  greater or
BinHex  v4.0 or greater (sorry, one   must have these  already because
they can't be get from the CD-ROM, I think).  Decode this file and you
should have a program called MacBinary.

Secondly, use this MacBinary program to filter all the Mac files found
from the CD. Use 'Download' option from the menus.

After these  steps the data and resource  forks of the files are there
where Mac expects them to be.

-harri-


-From ts@uwasa.fi Sun Aug  2 07:43:45 EET DST 1992
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Subject: Re: Garbo CD ROM for Mac: HELP!
Message-ID: <1992Jul31.181916.1355@uwasa.fi>
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:19:16 GMT
Lines: 34

In article <1388@eagle.ukc.ac.uk> dl1@ukc.ac.uk (Duncan Langford) writes:
>I've already had a number of replies to my original posting, some from
>fellow Garbo suffers, one or two from Walnut Creek supporters.
>
>I guess my frustration at having to spend time working out /how/ to pull
>stuff from the CD did rather colour my reaction. Walnut Creek don't seem
>to be the rip-off artists I'd thought, but just PC people after a slice of
>the Mac market without Mac know-how.

The gentle, long-suffering garbo users will have to consider the
underlying nature of the garbo archives.  Yes, indeed, we are
basically a PC site, and the mac material is a kind of a bonus, if
anything.  We concentrate on MsDos & Windows PD and shareware
material, and for example I concentrate on MsDos and do not
personally support our Mac side in any way.  (In fact I've never
even used a Mac).  However, there is a
garbo.uwasa.fi:/mac/HOW.TO.USE.THE.FILES by my fellow moderator
Harri Valkama hv@uwasa.fi at garbo which can be downloaded by FTP or
mail server in the usual manner.  While I will decline to answer any
mac specific questions sent to me (I would not know anything), the
following naturally applies:

"If you do not know how to go about getting this material, users are
welcome to email me for the prerecorded garbo.uwasa.fi instructions
(long, circa 29Kb).  If you do not receive my reply within five
days, please ask your own site's system manager to construct a
returnable mail path for you".

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


>> 2) The file KEYINT.ZIP in pc\turbopas on the CD ROM has is corrupt when
>> unzipped. Is it intact in the archeive (it has to be unzipped to find
>> out). If so I will try to email it.
>
>I took a look at it at garbo and ever dowloaded it to my PC and
>there was nothing wrong with it.  Are you sure you have used PKUNZIP
>version 1.10 because if you have used an earlier version that
>explains your problem.
>
>> Thanks in advance for your help, much appreciated (as is all the work
>> you do in supporting USENET.
>
>Thank you!
>
>> Regards - Gordon Hooton
>
>   All the best, Timo
>
>..................................................................
>Prof. Timo Salmi
>Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
>Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
>Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland

From ts@uwasa.fi Mon Jun 15 07:37:29 1992
Subject: Re: POST09.ZIP and DOSCLIP.COM
To: roberts@triton.unm.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 7:37:29 EET DST
In-Reply-To: <9206142348.AA13423@triton.unm.edu>; from "roberts@triton.unm.edu" at Jun 14, 92 5:48 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO

Hello Robert,

Thank you for the information.  I'll attach this to post09.txt and
therefore quote your message fully below.  You are right, of course.
The only reason that prompts using a binary editor rather than the
patch is that the binary editor method is more generic.  It allows
one to alter not only the hotkeys but also the message which tells
the user which keys the hotkeys are.  One further point is that the
binary editing can be used for such utilities where the patch script
is not available.

All the best, Timo

> Timo,
>
> I saw a recent message in comp.binaries.ibm.pc.wanted about a TSR
> Cut-and-paste utility.
>
> I checked out the file you recommended in your response to that
> TSR utility (I do believe it is your recommended utilities).
>
> I read that file, downloaded the PC Magazine utility from Garbo as
> well as Post09.ZIP and went to work with the utility.
>
> In the Post09 file, you describe how to change the hotkey combination
> for the DOSCLIP utility.
>
> I have found an easier way to change the hotkey combination.  The author
> said there was a file called PATCH.EXE that would make changing the
> hotkey combination easier.  I called a local board and found the PATCH
> file in the vol 10 num 19 collection of Nov 12, 1991.  I unzipped
> that, and found it was easier and quicker to use the point-and-shoot
> patch program when compared to going in with a hex editor and
> changing a few hex strings.
>
> The only drawback to this patch program is that it only will patch
> the hotkeys to be ALT or CTRL only.  If you wanted to use hotkeys
> that didn't have an ALT or CTRL key in it, your method is better.
>
> FYI.
>
> Robert
>
> Robert Smathers   (roberts@triton.unm.edu)   Albuquerque, NM
>
> Hometown of the 1992 Indianapolis 500 winner Al Unser, Jr.

From ts@brando.uwasa.fi Mon Jun 15 08:09:38 1992
Subject: Re: Missing file (upload lag)
To: cowles@hydra.convex.com (John Cowles)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 92 21:34:46 EET DST
Status: RO

> Dear Timo -
>
>   I was unable to find the file [such and such] on garbo. This
> was supposedly uploaded by [deleted as unessential]. If it is
> available, I would appreciate a pointer to it. Context follows:

John, our upload queue processing can takes up to two weeks and a
one week lag is quite common.  The author's announcement was a bit
ahead of its time.  Or rather, it must be considered an announcement
from the author about having _submitted_ the material to garbo.  It
was not yet an announcement of availability.

To speak of this in general terms.  I've occasionally pointed out to
our kind uploaders that they are most welcome to announce their
uploads on their own if they so wish.  But the kind uploaders and
the garbo users are well-advised be aware that this does not mean
immediate availability (nor an absolute certainly of acceptance to
garbo archives for that matter).

Since this question may recur, and is of general interest, I'll
store this reply.


   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland


