Bob Marley "Rastafari is Freedom" Interview by Chris Boyle Nashville, Tenn., December 1979 I was sitting in a room in the RadissonHotel with Bob Marley. We were watching a football game on tv while he strummed his guitar and improvised lyrics for a song he was working on. The song wenT like this: Well de blockin' And de tacklin' Dey got vengeance On der minds. Well de blockin' And de tacklin' Dey got vengeance On der minds. He smiled as I joined on the chorus. Then he sang the next verse: Well de runnin' And de gunnin' De're breakin' up De lines. Oh when the flags Fly high Dat's when you know It's election time. I said dat's when you know It's election time. Fix da holes In da street. Put da shoes on The child's feet. Oh when the Flags fly high Dat's when you know It's election time. Dey got vengeance On der minds. Our interview began on a Greyhound bus, returning to his hotel from an after- noon soundcheck, and continued later in his room. Chris Boyle: How's everything going? Bob Marley: Oh, some good, some bad. Q:Are you tired? You look tired. A: No, I can't be. I don't believe in tiredness. I don't put myself over to myself and get tired, you know? That is not right. I don't worry about it. Tiredness is worried. Tiredness is how you live. What you doing to get tired? Why tired from? How were you tired? Q: You don't ever get tired playing your music? A: Get tired playin' music? I don't think so. I could play all the day and would stop nuh. Music easy. You can get tired doin' somethin' other than you supposed to, but if you keep within your scope then you can cope. The way I live is so I live - doin' what is right. Getting tired is hurtin' your- self. You're not supposed to get tired. You can train. I run when I get a chance up Cane River, it's about four miles. I play soccer, table tennis. Q:Do you like doing this? A: Touring? Yeah mon. It's part of the job. Get to the people. Q: Are you sincere in what you're doing or are you just out to make a lot of money? A: If you're not sincere, you cannot be doing it. Q:How long have you been doing this? A: Long time, mon. Long, long time. Q:Why did you choose to become a musi- cian? A: You ask me why God make I amusi- cian? You can't ask me that. I didn't choose to be a musician. I was more of a farmer, more into mechanical things, cars, engines, machines. I used to do electrical welding. Q: I read when yousaid "welding" that meant sex for a reggae musician. The interviewer asked what you did in King- ston and you said, "I became a welder," and they heard that a welder was a guy who got it on with a lot of women. (Laughter) That's what it said. You said, "I did welding," and then you smiled after you said that. (Laughter) So tell me, what is it? A:Electrical welding. Q: With a helmet? Mask? A blow torch? A: PSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH! (Imitates weld- er) (Laughter). Q: Religion seems toplay a big part in your life and music. A: In my life, every part. Somepeople call it religion, but it just God creation. Everything around that is re- ligion. Religion is just a word, like politics. People fight against each other, against the roots. Rastaman re- spect every man's religion, but I know there is no religion. Religion is just war. It's a warfield. Q: On your new album, Survival, you sing, "Life is one big road with lots of signs." What are some of the signs that stand out in your mind? A: Signs of the times. Like the Shah going on right now, the oil predica- ment, the nuclear, the earthquake, everything today. Q: You use theterm, atomic misphiloso- phy. A: No good mon. Everything no good. Everything "mis." Scientific foolish- ness. Q: Science does some good, doesn't it? A: Yeah, some things it doesgood, but there's more things science should be doin'. Check up how much people starv- in' upon the earth. Scientists spend money, get moon, but people need eat- in'. It's really foolishness. Mankind come first. Q: Politicians don't seem to think so. A: No mon. Q: What aresome of the good signs you see? A: The only good sign I see is Rasta- fari. Rasta mean head. Fari mean creat- or. Rastafari is head creator. Head creator is God. What does God mean? Rastafari. Q: Some people say Jesus is the answer. A: Yeah, but Jesus tell us Him come forward, right? That He would come again. And when He come He would be King of Kings, Lord of Lords and con- queror of the land of Judah. Now we look fe see Jesus.... Q: And He hasn't returned? A: Yes, Him come, of course. Haile Sel- assie is the Christ who them speak of. Him come as the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, conqueror of the land of Judah, as according to the Bible manifest. So when the Christians look, them say, "No, is not Him." Is like when Christ here the first time, them say, "Not Him." Q: So, you're saying Haile Selassie is the Christ or has the Christ within him? A: Is the Christ and no other one be- fore or after. Q: How can you be sure? What if He re- turned tomorrow? A: What do you mean Him come tomorrow? Him come before tomorrow and was here yesterday and tomorrow and is here al- ways. His name is Rastafari. So you can't look for Him come. You don't see Him come as Rastafari, don't you hear that? You couldn't expect God to come to every individual man. Every individ- ual man, when he hear the word, suppos- ed to know if Him. When he hear Christ send Him here to teach us again, Him send Rastafari. Q: So Haile Selassie isJesus come back for the second time? A: Yeah mon. King of Kings, Lord of Lords. Is true. Check out newspapers every time Haile Selassie come to Unit- ed States, just like the Bible said. Q: Isn't Haile Selassie leader of Ethi- opia? A: Oh mon, I not talk about God like that. You cannot put God in no country. You have to put God as the Creator, you know, because that is what divide peo- ple. The people is the people, not country. Hurt is the difference between people. That mean if I wanna look at Haile Selassie and say, "Oh well, he's just the leader of Ethiopia," then that mean in America you have a next leader. So who's the leader of America? Q: Jimmy Carter. A: Not like that,because Jimmy Carter have a Creator. Q: Is Jimmy Carter the equivalent ofHaile Selassie? A: Oh no mon, you can't talk to me like that. I tell you about God mon, I'm not jokin'. Is no joke. Is someone you know and you mustn't ask a foolish question, cause Him is God and if I not prove it to ya, Him will. Q: I wasn't trying to put you on the spot about your beliefs. A: Not my belief mon. Is what is real. And this truth have no boundaries. Is just the truth, not my truth. Just the way life is. Q: So you don't put yourself in a posi- tion where you have to defend this truth? A: My belief is bein' defended mon. If a guy don't defend it, him have to die, because this is what him is. And if not what is in him, him have to die, be- cause what is in him is dead, and dead is dead and this is life. You're supp- osed to live. So a guy preaches death, so if he is dead, then you going to be- lieve Haile Selassie's not God. Him say, "Should we believe in death, God is not real," for you, because some- thing different. For me, God is livin' and life. That mean I have to live with God. To a next man to who God is only a spirit, then him dead. I don't want to live in spirit. That too different. I wanna talk about reality, not talk ab- out what is not real. Cause I can tell you, God is Haile Selassie. You ask any other man who God is and if him say is not Haile Salassie, then have him show you the next man who is God. I put the Bible in front of him, I must say, "God say when Him return, Him shall be King of Kings, Lord of Lords, conqueror of the land of Judah," and I say to him, "You believe in God?" and him say, "Yes." Then I ask him, then, when God say He will return as King of Kings, Lord of Lords, conqueror of the land of Judah, you think any man can come and be God you believe in? And him say, "No." I say what did he want God to be? He want God to be a white man? He want God to be a China man? God is who God is. Q: What is responsible for this "sleep- less slumber" you sing about? A: Babylon strategy of keeping the peo- ple workin' all the day 9 to 5 and 5 to 9, world machine working and getting up everyday with boss on your mind. Q: Has it got you working in that syst- em? A: No mon. Me come fe change that. Me no come for workin'. I used to work in that system. Q: Do you believe you must work in that system before you canchange it? A: System is a belief, right? Thing is, should America rebound tomorrow to my philosophy, ideology and movement of Rastafari, then you would see the changes, because the mankind conscious- ness will come and man will realize who him is. But until that happen, you see the leaders of the Babylon system are going to do these things, because lead- ers are those demagogues who think themself as God. Them think they king, wear crowns, but them not do a good for the people, mon. People wanna live. People want feedin'. Man talk about how your lifespan only 60 years. That is foolishness. Put a time-limit on you. You see, this is a time of scientific astrology and science, so when God say man can live forever is not a lie, be- cause today, the scientists take an in- jection from a man and a woman and make a baby. You know about that? The test- tube baby? So if man can do that, then man can live forever. No one gonna know all the changes gonna come. I don't think test-tube baby's good. I think it better natural. Is a lot of lies them tell the people. Them say man used to be monkey. A lie. How come the monkey not changin' still? How come the monkey them still no change to man? Q: How come monkeys don't build factor- ies? A: (Laughter) Right, mon. Q: You express a deep concern for man's sufferings. Is your music a way of re- lieving that suffering? A: My music is awareness. My music is a music that point to everlivin' life. Is the way to everlivin' life, the great gift God gave to man. Q: "Live if you want to live - Rastaman vibration." A: That's true. Q: What is reggae music? A: Reggae music is heart music from the people of Jamaica. A music within its own self. Music is family. You cannot separate music and family. You can sep- arate lyrics, but you can't separate music. Q: Do you write melodies first, then the lyrics, or lyrics first, then the melody? A: I try to go about it every way. Q: Are you the leader of thegroup or does the group lead itself? A: Group have a direction. Group a team. Everyone play discipline part, way it supposed to be, like a machine put together. Q: What separates reggae from other types of music? A: Most people that deal with it, deal with natural feelings. Reggae music na- tural. Don't fantasize at all. Natural as it can get. Q: What about thewords? A: That God is no blood clot joke, mon. But this is what people want. People want destruction. Q: Sex, destruction, violence? A: Yeah, that blood clot devil. I look at life like this, earth like this. Man have two purpose - one good, one bad. One positive, one negative. Like that television over there and all the things it can show, no benefit. But you can make things it show a benefit, whatever you wanna make it for. Q: Do you think I, as a listener, can benefit from your music? A: Ya have to. If you don't benefit, then you're not interested in it. If ya benefit, you want more. Q: Do you think the response to your music is getting better? More people listening? A: I think there is more people listen- ing. Everywhere I go, people love mus- ic. Some places, crowd get bigger, sure. Them people like music. Music good. If music no good, them no care who we is. When they come, then we can deliver message. Q: You're not disappointed that more people don't listen? A: Can't be disappointed. Q: Like you can't be tired, right? A: (Laughter) That right, mon. Q: You're not worried about being a big success or making a lot of money? A: No, because it bigger than just mak- ing a lot of money. Money not every- thing. Because when everything come true, then people will know the real meaning of the word when it happen. Un- til then, a mystery in the hands of God. Q: Are you and your group improving? A: Getting better? Our group can do anything they want. Some nights better than others, other nights better than some. Some night a technical difficulty can mess up show. Q: Is there ever a day when you wake up and don't want to play? A: No, because if I come to do it, I come to do it. If I don't want to do it, then I don't come to do it. Q: How old are you? A: Forever. Q: You mean your not 34? A: No, forever time till. 34 not time. 34 number. I don't want to give myself a number. Me, forever. Q: What are your thought right now? A: Just think about what goin' on to- night. Get me self ready to do that. Q: I heard you coughing tonight. Does the smoking of herb affect the way you sing? A: No mon. (Laughter) The more I smoke, I get to sing real courser. I want to sing ugly, you know, coarse. I don't want to be a sweet singer. I want to be a URRRRRRR. Q: I heard you like Brook Benton. He doesn't sound like that. He's got one of those deep, mellow voices. (Singing) A: AHHHHHHHHHHH! (High-pitched scream) Q: What singers do you like? A: Brook Benton, Fats Domino, Little Richard, James Brown, Clyde McPhatter, Otis Redding, Bily Eckstine, Harry Bel- efonte and artists like Stevie Wonder and Curtis Mayfield. Q: Other than putting URRRRRRR in your voice, any other reasons you smoke? A: You see my spliff? One meditation, Jamaican style. Q: I noticed Jamaicans aren't really into passing it around. A: If you don't have anymore;but if you have, you do. Q: Where I come from, people light it up and pass it around. A: That because they afraid of it. Most people afraid to smoke it like this. I smoke to take a lift. It allow me to deal with what I want to deal with. Meditation. To me, meditation is a lot of different thoughts. It can be what- ever you're meditating on. My mind med- itates on this now. (Holds tea cup) My meditation is what is this made of? How did it get to be like this? Q: Are your songs meditations? A: Strictly. All of them meditations. Q:"Three little birds singing don't worry." A: Yeah mon. Don't worry 'bout a thing, cause every little thing gonna be all right. Some say, "When will it be?" and I say as soon as you want it to be. "My music is awareness. My music is a music that point to everlivin' life, the great gift God give to man." Q: You're playing in Nashville, Tennes- see, the country-western capital of the world. Country music is a music about life, love, death, work, God.... A:Like reggae music. It's people mus- ic, country music. Music of the people, for the people. Q: Are you trying to change people's thoughts with your music? A: No. We are forcing the good out of people. You know, give them a tuff in- jection, charge their battery. Some peoples don't want their batteries charged. Some does, some don't. Q: Is there anything you do besides mu- sic. Painting, pottery? A: Is a lot of thing I can do, but mostly social work. Like when somebody want to get something done, you come to me and ask me for help and if I can help you, I help. You know, do Rasta, ordinary work. Q: Like work in a gas station? A: No mon, me no like that. Q: You practice as well as preach? A:Right. When this thing started, we was for the Rastas. If we have any doubt what we would reach, we wouldn't have been Rastas for all these years. Up to now, society has not accepted Rasta. So, it's for real, mon. Not a joke. It's not just immediate people, it's all world power fighting against Rasta. All world powers, blood clot de- vil and devil fight against who? God. And God is a Rastafari. All the peoples bein' kept down because they allow themselves to be keepin' down. You can never forget what it is to be a Rasta, which is your true self with- out any leader, any boss, or anyone, just your natural self. God create you to be free. Free up yourselfs, other- wise you worthless. Free yourself, be- fore somebody tell you "Look right, look left!" or someone try and teach ya. Q:How would you teach someone to free themselves? A: First of all, I teach him freedom of the spirit, to find which tendency is his. Make him know who he is and what him want to be - what his talent is. Every man have talent and dignity. God's gift. Make him know who him is now and when him read Bible, him know who him is and give him full medita- tion, instead of reading Bible like it something strange. First freedom, and that he's changing still. What else can I do but tell people about Rastafari? Rastafari is freedom. Q: Do you see mankind as equals? A: In natural life, yes, it is so, but in Babylon, not like that. To me, Baby- lon is negative. Babylon pray for war and we pray to our Father. Babylon is all that is evil. the devil is Babylon- ism. Babylon opposite to Rasta. You have good and you have bad, no? Rasta good. Babylon bad. Babylon is a man- made power, evil, put together to rule the people by force. Keep 'em killing one another. It is the people in power, them is the wicked ones, but the power them get is the power been going on forever. So where did all the power come from? Rome. The Vatican. That's where they get white power. Pope is white power, represent the devil. What he is defending is what he is. Show me your company and I'll tell you who you are. By their food you shall know them. Q:Is there anything you'd like to say at the end of this interview? A:Rastafari!* Reggae & African Beat Volume V, #3 1986  there anything you'd like to say at the end